liz_marcs ([info]liz_marcs) wrote,
@ 2005-04-29 13:01:00
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Current mood: pessimistic

FIC: Dismay (BtVS; PG)
And so I continue on my quest to rescue my fics from The Pit of Voles aka Fanfiction DOT Net.

Thanks to [info]d_tepes, who emailed them his share of questions, it turns out that it doesn't matter if you credit or not or only use a few lines or not. Anything you didn't write (the specific guidance mentions songs, but I suspect that it's about to expanded to books and other published works as well) and isn't in the public domain is a no-no and is grounds for nuking your account.

That means I better rescue Whisper this weekend, since Chapter 33 in that fic needs to have lyrics summarily yanked tonight. I'm not going to bother re-writing. I'm just going to cut the lyrics and have a nice little author's note at the top of the chapter. Whisper is already archived several places, but I probably should bring it here and finish putting it up at autoarchives like I Need a Parrot (also have to fix the formatting on what I do have there) and Slayer Fanfic Archive.

By the way, if anyone else can point me to an auto-archive, I'd be ever-so-grateful. Thanks.

Anyway, Dismay remains one of two of the strangest stories I've ever put out there (and both my strange stories are supposedly B/X...ummmm...sort of...)


  • It's the only first-person narrative you'll find in my portfolio.

  • It's the only story where I've written Xander as someone in the early stages of alcoholism, although in this story he hits rock bottom with a defeaning thud.

  • It's the only story where some of the positive feedback on the story made me cringe. One typical piece of FB: "Gud. Zander knows how Spiek feels abut beeing uzd by Bufy. Buffys a bitch who just uses people and Zander mad funn of Spiek and help abusing Spike and makeing him fel stupid. Tehy too belong togehter." My response (never sent): "Way to miss the point there! And where did you learn to spell? Let me know when you get out of second grade." (Yes, I'm being mean. *snerk*)

Dismay was supposed to be a second part in a B/X round-robin story and ended up being a stand-alone. The first story, called Disbelief by Wicked Raygun was posted to the BX_Fanfic Yahoo Group in the spring of 2003. He issued a RR challenge to get these two crazy kids together. I immediately volunteered for story two, wrote it up, and sent it to him. Wicked adored it and gave me his blessing to post it to the list. I cackled with glee. He cackled with glee. We were setting up quite the scenario he and I. I couldn't wait to see who picked up the baton.

The story was greeted with stunned silence.

There were a few tepid remarks. One person from that list very politely asked me, "Are you sure you're in the right group, honey? Because a story like this is not what we want here. We were expecting something better. Did you read the rules? No bashing Buffy or Xander and you did both. We want something romantic and this...well this story is not good. Thank you for playing. Don't try this again." Those words were not used (like I said, she was very polite), but that was pretty much the gist of this feedback.

Now, what kills me is that it's pretty damn clear that I'm not bashing anyone, especially if you read the scenario set up by Wicked in Disbelief. I was literally following his lead and I even ran the story right by him to make sure it was what he wanted.

At any rate, Dismay was summarily ignored, someone else wrote a new second part that went over better with the audience, and I think it even went into a third part, although I'm not sure on that. Dismay has floated by itself ever since, although I always do my best to link back to Wicked's story.

Now comes the ironic part: Of all the stories I've written, this one tends to crop up on a lot of, "Does anyone remember this story?" lists. No kidding. At least two dozen times in the last two years, I've stumbled across people asking: "Does anyone know the title or have the link to a story with ths plot? I've been trying to find it and I can't!"

Whenever I volunteer that it's me and I give them a link, the response is, "You? You wrote something like this?"

Ayup. I can't believe it either.

Anyway, here it is. Story two in my saving the puppies from the Pit of Voles Project:

Title: Dismay
Author: Lizbeth Marcs
Fandom: Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Rating: Rated PG-13 for vague hints of sexual intercourse, drunkenness, and if you’re really sensitive about religious issues.
Disclaimer: Buffy the Vampire Slayer are owned by FOX, written and produced by Mutant Enemy, which means none of the characters within are mine.
Summary: Xander deals with aftermath of a one-night stand by talking to the only person who might be willing to listen, and he’s not even sure about that. Post S7.
Pairing B/X, but not romantic. Makes reference to A/X.
Warning: Was originally written early S7. Is now standing as an AU.</p>
Author’s Note Was originally written in early S7 as a response to a challenge by Wicked Raygun to his story Disbelief. It has since received minor tweaking to reflect the time immediately following post-Chosen.



Dear God,

Kill. Me. Now.

You owe me Big Guy. Seriously. I’ve been involved in seven…no…wait…EIGHT apocalypses if you count the one involving Jack, a diesel bomb, and rampaging zombies.

If saving the world eight times doesn’t get you some sort of special dispensation of the time-traveling variety, I don’t know what does.

So, while I’m curled up in the fetal ball on the floor of my bathroom and hugging the toilet, you will work Your Mojo and turn back the clock to just before Buffy asked me to go to that stupid dance club to track down a vampire that had acquired a taste for roofies.

Yeah, that’s what I said.

Roofies? Vampires? What next? Cokeheads with pointy teeth? Turns out said vampire ingests said roofies by drinking the blood of the high who, when under the influence, believe they’re also mighty.

We won’t get into ‘mighty what,’ will we God? Especially since You saw fit to illustrate in the most painful and humiliating manner as possible what happens to Yours Truly under the influence.

Anyway, when you plop me back in the Summers-Rosenberg apartment sometime yesterday, You will then put the following words in my mouth:

“No thank you, Buffy. Me and Demon Alcohol seem to be having a nasty custody battle over my body. I thank generations of careful inbreeding in the Harris Line. I will go home, duct tape my mouth, and stare at the blank wall until the urge to drink boilermakers until the world goes fuzzy passes. Thank you for asking. Have you considered taking Willow instead? How about Dawn?”

When I count to three, You will cast Your Magic Spell, send me back in time, and have me say just that.

One. Two. Three.

Gah! I’m still here. Okay God, I’m giving You one more shot. Ready? Count of three.

One. Two. Three.

I. Have. Not. Moved. A. Smegging. Inch.

You know God, the thought occurs—please correct me if I’m wrong—the thought occurs that You just might not exist.

The further thought occurs that, if You do exist, You, in fact, have a very sick and twisted sense of humor.

Do You know what the killer is, Pal? The real killer? I didn’t even finish my one drink. Don’t get me wrong, God. I ordered a Guinness, but only after Buffy staked our Very High Friend with the Pointy Teeth within five seconds of entering the club. Dumbass was giving a hickey of the fatal kind to some Goth Chick right by the entrance where anyone could see him.

Who says drugs don’t make you stupid? Heh.

Buffy made him instant dust and Goth Chick was staggering back to the dance floor muttering something about something.

Owwwww! My head. My stomach. Hold on…

Ewwww! Sorry about that. Didn’t mean to do the Technicolor Yawn in the middle of this very, very serious conversation I’m having with You.

Where was I?

Oh, yeah, convincing You of the rightness of time travel, namely, time travel to benefit me.

Buffy wanted to stay and do some dancing while I wanted to go home and try my dry-out-the-Harris-curse-using-duct-tape-and-willpower program. But, noooooo! She batted those big green eyes of hers and I gave in like a two-dollar whore with an Andrew Jackson being waved in my face.

Now there’s an appropriate new word to apply to me: whore.

Matches “stupid” and “worthless” and “drunk” and “Slayer’s boy.”

So Buffy orders an umbrella drink and looks at me with one of those looks when I order a club soda. I’m not in a confessional mood so I order my Guinness because I don’t want to deal with questions about my growing relationship with Demon Alcohol. I figure I could just leave it on the bar and pretend to sip. Spares me questions that I don’t really have the strength to answer.

I’ve mentioned the ‘I’m stupid’ part, right?

So I see Guinness Draft in that perfect Guinness Glass, and what do I do? I take a big gulp. Big dumb Xander. Can’t even resist temptation.

So this song that’s all over the radio like a cheap suit starts up and Buffy’s dragging me on the dance floor because she loves this song and we’re pinballing all over the place. I hate the song, but it was nice just to pretend that there are no worries involving bills, big bads, broken hearts, lost Heavens, disappeared towns, new cities, scattered Slayers, lost Watchers, battered bodies, dead Spikes, and dead Anyas.

There was just the dance floor, me spazzing out because of my lack of rhythm thing, and her.

So the song ends, we’re back at our place at the bar and shouting over the music. Not a real conversation. No. Unh-unh. Scoobies don’t have real conversations. We quip. We make fun of people. We make fun of each other. But a real conversation? Not in years.

See, God, that’s part of why I want this time travel thing. Maybe if I said something about me and my affair with Demon Alcohol, I could’ve had a real conversation because, I gotta tell you God. I’m beginning to scare myself and I don’t know who to talk to.

You don’t count.

Why am I scaring myself? Wait, lemme get to my feet. The only way You can see this is if I look in the mirror.

See? Look. Look at that. Every day I look in the mirror I look a little more like my father, glass eye issue aside.

I think I sometimes act like him, too.

Except I haven’t hit anyone. Yet.

Probably because just about every woman I know can kick my sorry ass without breaking a sweat. And if they can’t do it, they know someone who can.

Ohhh, I don’t feel so well. Excuse me while I just slide right back to the bathroom floor.

Where was I?

Oh, yeah. Dance club. Right.

We’re doing the running commentary and I’m doing…well…doing very well actually. Or I thought I was doing well. I’m just sipping here and there of beery goodness. I didn’t even order a second drink before my first one was done.

At least I don’t think I did. Did I? I don’t suppose You know that answer to that, do You?

You can tell me. Whisper it right in my ear.

C’mon! You can tell me.

Shit. Don’t tell me You don’t remember last night either. Bet You were too worried about sparrows falling out of the sky or something like that.

Yeah, I’m hoping You strike me dead with a thunderbolt. Am I that obvious?

Thing is, I don’t remember finishing my first drink. I sure as hell don’t remember ordering the next. I just remember sipping the beer and talking to Buffy and then…

Nothing.

Nada.

Zip.

Well, not exactly nothing.

Next thing I know, I’m walking on some street and Buffy’s giggling. I look down and there she is supporting my entire weight like she’s some sort of crutch. So I try to stand and I fall flat on my ass right in the middle of this sidewalk. I try to get up and Buffy says something I don’t really catch and then she reaches out her hand to help me up.

I figure, hey! Slayer strength! She can pull me to my feet!

Except she doesn’t.

I yank, she falls right in my lap and she looks at me with those big green eyes and then I drown.

I honestly drown, God. I can’t hear anything ‘cause there’s this roaring and there’s this difficulty breathing I’m having and then…

I can’t stop. I don’t want to stop.

Somewhere in the middle of the kiss I forget everything and start thanking Demon Alcohol.

Do You get that? I’m grateful that I’m drunk because I can get what I want and not pay later. I can claim that I don’t remember a thing.

I am slime. You can slug me up now, God. Right here. Just make sure when you slug me up that you do it near an overturned saltshaker. Got it?

The slug wish is if you decide not to come through with the time travel wish. Just so we’re clear.

And the next thing…

Except I don’t remember the next thing.

The next thing I actually remember is we—Buffy and I, that is, Buffy and me—are in my kitchen and she’s sitting on top of the counter and we’re kissing and her legs are wrapped around me and…

Were we still clothed?

Wait. Wait. Lemme think a minute here. If I’m going for the full confession I gotta be clear.

Yes? No? Yes. Still clothed. But it doesn’t feel like it because the friction thing and I can’t stop myself even if…well…maybe if Buffy wanted to, but short of that? Fire, flood, apocalypse, Dawn, nothing is gonna stop this and I can feel it all over in that tingly, ball-tightening, stomach-clenching, painfully hard way.

And just when I feel like I’m about to…

Nothing.

I mean nothing.

Except this vague memory of skin on skin coming into focus and then…

God…not You…what the fuck did I do?

IwillnotthinkaboutlastnightIwillnotthinkaboutlastnightIwillnotthinkaboutlastnight…

It was…

Incredible.

Amazing.

Everything I ever wanted.

Everything I ever dreamed.

And it doesn’t mean a fucking thing.

Don’t get me wrong.

Means everything to me.

More than words can ever hope to express. More than thoughts can hope to express.

Last night was a prayer in flesh.

And it meant nothing to her.

I could see that before she fled my apartment. Right in her eyes. I was “convenient.” Just like I’m always “convenient.”

I need a ride, Xander. I need you to fix the window, Xander. I need to stow some extra weapons and clothes at your apartment, Xander. Can you pick up pizzas on your way over, Xander?

Can you fuck me because I’m feeling unattractive and because I haven’t had a date in months, Xander.

As a token of my appreciation, please excuse me while I rip your heart out and squeeeeze it with all my Slayer strength in front of your very eyes before I jump out of your bed and race for the front door, Xander.

Suuuuure, Buffy. Whatever you say, Buffy. I’ll even blame myself for being so fucking stupid for believing that I mean a fucking thing to you, Buffy.

Even though you mean everything to me.

You.

And Willow.

And Dawn.

And especially Anya, even if she isn’t among the living any more.

Shit.

Riley’s not State Farm. I am.

God…yes I’m talking to You…this hurts.

It hurts that I still love her and I didn’t even know it until I woke up and saw her staring down at me with those perfect green eyes and the early morning sun highlighting her hair. It hurts that I just wanted a repeat performance of last night and knew the second I looked into those green eyes that I would never have it again. It hurts to have a night of warmth and wonder the next morning if you’ll ever, ever be warm like that again.

It hurts to know that the connection we had as friends really wasn’t a connection at all. It was all about me being some sort of safe harbor in between the real storms of Buffy-romance.

It hurts I’m losing my custody battle with Demon Alcohol. It hurts my inner Daddy Harris is getting a little less inner.

It hurts that maybe that Buffy-torch didn’t snuff out while I planned to marry Anya.

But I swear, God, I swear on a stack of whatever Holy Books You want me to swear on that I didn’t know. I didn’t realize.

Let’s tack “not self-aware” on to my list of adjectives, shall we?

It just hurts. And I know, I just know, that it will never stop.

Say, God? About the time travel request…

Forget it.

Can You just kill me instead?


END


(50 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]ludditerobot
2005-04-29 06:01 pm UTC (link)
I always post here first, so I might just let 'em read "Eyeless", find the Everclear lyrics and drop me.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 06:06 pm UTC (link)
These are all stories pre-LJ for me. If they dump me, it's more an annoyance thing instead of a tragedy because I have everything in multiple backups (and in pieces. Let's not forget pieces.)

Anyway, I just figure I'd try and at least get off my ass and transfer my pre-LJ archive over here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sunnyd_lite
2005-04-29 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Just read both Disbelief and Dismay. Yours is the perfect companion piece, and just so Scoobies to completely misread each other, yet not speak of it.

Great convo with God. It hurts to have a night of warmth and wonder the next morning if you’ll ever, ever be warm like that again Perfectly painful.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 06:16 pm UTC (link)
Which is exaclty what I was going for. Heh. The replacement part was just slightly more romantic and featured the match-maker Willow that only occurs in fanon. Heh.

Seriously thought. Too this day the FB on this story completely confuses me to no end. People either think I'm bashing Buffy, bashing Xander, or bashing the ship. *headdesk*

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dlgood
2005-04-29 06:15 pm UTC (link)
Did you read the rules? No bashing Buffy or Xander and you did both. We want something romantic and this...well this story is not good.

Translation:
No Bashing = Anything other than fawning over the perfectness rightness of B/X is verboten? Was that it. Tiresome attitude whether this is 'your ship' or not.

It's not 'happy ending' which, I suppose bugs people when they didn't ask for it. If that was the requirement, it doesn't fit. But that doesn't make this a "bad" story. It's very good. It just isn't "Wish Fulfillment-y" enough, I suppose.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 06:20 pm UTC (link)
I think part of it boils down to the fact that the original author, Wicked, wasn't really clear. He was trying to start a Round Robin, as in, more than two-part story written by multiple authors. He thought my part was in character and helped set a good strong stage for other people to take over.

I think a few people thought I was supposed to be finishing it. *headdesk*

Either way, your statement about the list is partially spot on. Not all authors and readers there are like that, but at the time, they were very, very protective of their list (mid-S7 after all) and I think slightly oversensitive. I'm willing to bet that the response might be different now...maybe.

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(no subject) - [info]dlgood, 2005-04-29 06:27 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]timeofchange
2005-04-29 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Oh, God. I can't believe someone would think you were bashing Xander here. This is painful and sad, yes, but no at all harsh. Maybe to Buffy a little, but then it's through the eyes of someone in a lot of pain, so not all that reliable. I haven't yet read the preceding story, and I will, but this stands alone beautifully.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 06:22 pm UTC (link)
See? Exactly. So I'm not the crazy one.

If you read the companion story, you'll see you're dead-on with your assessment. Buffy is extremely harsh on herself because she thinks she took advantage of a drunk Xander and her misreading his reaction "the morning after," so it was supposed to be the typical Scooby screw-up.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]timeofchange, 2005-04-29 08:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jlbarnett, 2007-02-04 08:06 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]keith5by5
2005-04-29 06:45 pm UTC (link)
Not my favourite of your stories, because I like to see heroic Xander, although it's certainly in his genes to act like that. BUT as well-written as always. And therein lies the problem, you know as well as I do certain Xander writers and readers see him as the personification of perfection. That's where your critics were coming from.

Xander is flawless and don't you forget it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I agree. Not my best. It is what it is: a short story that originally was supposed to be a chapter in a round robin. It can stand on its own, but really, it helps to see the original story with it.

I mean, the whole point was to set up the problem for other people to solve.

And, oh yeah, someone in the "Xander is perfect" crowd has already taken a pot-shot at me over Water. *headdesk*

If Xander is always perfect, he gets BORING!

Sorry. Must cut back on coffee.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]keith5by5, 2005-04-30 06:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]liz_marcs, 2005-04-30 12:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]keith5by5, 2005-04-30 01:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]troyguffey, 2005-07-01 01:42 am UTC (Expand)

[info]jedi_penguin
2005-04-29 06:52 pm UTC (link)
Wicked Raygun and I run in different 'ships, but every time I've encountered one of his stories I've enjoyed it very much. "Disbelief" is no exception. Your story here is a perfect companion piece, and both of them are stronger for the other. This is what co-operative writing should be and virtually never is. Kudos to both of you!

And sidenote: there is NO bashing of any kind in either story, at least not according to my definitions. Just two screwed up people not understanding each other, which is sad, but hardly bashing. Harsh verdicts from a character who has been set up as an unreliable narrator are NOT the same thing as character-bashing! (Says the woman who was accused of the very same thing because her Giles didn't luuuurve Angel post-Becoming...)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 07:04 pm UTC (link)
Believe it or not, IIIIIIII'mmmmmm walkingonair....

Sorry. Did you say something? I've been groving over here.

Heh. Sorry. Thank you again for that soundtrack.

Anway, I'm totally with you on this. I have yet another "Xander is a totally unreliable narrator" story that people pretty much believed was a Buffy-bash story. *eeaaaarrrghhhhh* WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS ASSUME CHARACTERS TELL THE TRUTH OR THAT THEY'RE VOICING THE AUTHOR'S OPINION?!?

No, really. Characters can be wrong. Mistaken. Mislead. Or just freakin' bitter and pissed off. It's called POV and not all characters have the same POV. *headdesk headdesk*

Sorry, you tripped over a pet peeve.

As for people accusing you of Giles-bashing, they obviously forgot that he pulled a cross-bow on Angel during that stupid "it's snowing in Sunnydale" episode, right? Or that fact he was NOT a fan afterwards? Let's forget killing Jenny, how about hours and hours or torture might make Giles not a fan of Angel/Angelus/Whatever His Name is today.

Whoops. Another peeve.

*checks coffee*

Yup. Over caffineated.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]jedi_penguin, 2005-04-29 07:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]skipp_of_ark, 2005-04-30 06:41 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]liz_marcs, 2005-04-30 01:38 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]invisionary
2005-04-29 07:25 pm UTC (link)
People are way too sensitive if they considered this a bash fic.

Just because one character thinks something about another character, or even about themselves, doesn't mean that the author is trying to say it's objectively true.

Anyway, I liked this for what it was. Good job.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:34 pm UTC (link)
Amen on that.

Wait'll you see Mars Rising where I deliberately wrote it as Xander being almost completely unreliable as a narrator. People weren't entirely sure how to take that one, either.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dreamerjules
2005-04-29 07:56 pm UTC (link)
I'm not a big Xander/Buffy fan, mostly because Buffy can get on my nerves in a heart beat, both canon and fanon.

That said, this is a nice character study and a realistic, I think, portrait of Xander should he get what he's always wanted. Without reassurances from Buffy, he would jump to the conclusion that it wasn't what he wanted it to be. Why is that so hard to accept?

Will have to read the first story though, but this stands alone quite well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:33 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I'm in the camp that's not convinced Buffy/Xander could actually work, although a good writer can convince me that it could work in under the right circumstances. So I'm with you on that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]captain_subtext
2005-04-29 07:57 pm UTC (link)
What the...? *Looks around* where am I? Everything is so different. *squints* Seems like its the right address though.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:31 pm UTC (link)
I got sick of the old look and changed it.

And can I say:

SHERIFF BLACK SHERIFF BLACK SHERIFF BLACK!

Imagine how much more fun Caleb would have been if Gary Cole played him. Okay, would've give away he was a baddie the second he showed on screen, but still...GARY COLE!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]captain_subtext, 2005-04-30 03:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]liz_marcs, 2005-04-30 03:35 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]bastardsnow
2005-04-29 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Wow... Okay, I had read both of these fics, and I never glommed that they were companion pieces... ::scratches his head in befuddlement::

Anyway. Yeah. Good job. Painful, certainly, but not at all bashing. My thoughts go like this: People are stupid, and it's generally a good decision to ignore them.

Anyway. Good stuff. Glad you're posting your stuff here now, cuz I'll get to read it all over again without having the bother of looking for it =)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:17 pm UTC (link)
Nah, this was a case where the reaction was overwhelmingly in one direction that I thought I completely wrote it wrong. I fall into the camp that if you're entire audience misses the point, they're not the ones at fault. It never occured to me that maybe I was showing it to the wrong audience.

This one along with Mars Rising are the two most misunderstood stories I've writen because they are the two stories where the narrator (Xander) is tremendously unreliable but people kept taking his word as gospel. At least with Mars I was prepared for it. I wasn't for ths one.

Also notice I'm trying to get some of this stuff on PYGS now, too. *grins*

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]othercat
2005-04-29 08:17 pm UTC (link)
This was a crushingly painful story to read. It was also really really good.

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[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:13 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

Between you and me, more painful on the B/X part. I don't hate the pairing, but the pairing mystifies me somewhat...yeah, says the girl who's got a serious Angel/Xander kink, so what do I know?

In all seriousness, I tried to write the pairing and have managed two very, very short completed stories and one fairly long unfinished and unpublished one. And all of them were done at the request of online friends, so there you go. Not a comfortable pairing for me to write.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]thirdgorchbro
2005-04-29 09:14 pm UTC (link)
I think I actually prefer the original post-Grave version, even though it was Jossed. It just seems to fit better. As far as the bashing thing goes, I'm with the rest of the commenters, I just don't see it. When I read this together with Disbelief, they look like the beginning of a really good story. It's too bad nobody else followed up on it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:10 pm UTC (link)
I always thought so, but I don't think anyone who read it originally tweaked to the idea that Wicked Raygun was trying to start a round robin and that was the reason it was written.

Yeah, the slight changes I've made in it did move it away slightly from Wicked's original story, but I'm slightly anal retentive and people reading this might wonder when it occured, so I tweaked it up to more fit into the canon Post-'Chosen' frame.

Although I can completely see why people might prefer the original version.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2005-04-29 09:48 pm UTC (link)
One problem with feedback, particularly anonymous feedback, is that one persons character-bash could be another persons Mary Sue. If I really wanted to, I could argue at length that this story fluffs up crocodile-tear sympathy for poor Xander who is so screwed up / damaged / in need of some quality h&c fic (if there is such a thing) that he can't even recognize a good thing, or a compliment, when it jumps into bed with him. Isn't he a poor widdle woobie in need of a hug? (Sarcastic example! Not for human consumption! I believe nothing of the sort!)

Ya just can't please everyone...

My rule, my only rule, is that what I write has to appeal to *me.* And even with that monstrously lax standard, I occasionally look back and wince in pain at some of what I've written, so I don't always succeed. For me a successful bit of writing might never be seen by anyone else, as the clutter on my hard-drive can attest, but as long as I re-read it once a year and find it moves me, then it's a raving success to it's audience of one. If some other people happen to groove to my personal flavor, then they must be like me, either A) touched in the head, B) extra-super-cool or, more likely, C) all of the above.

Personal pet peeve? When hypersensitive fenbots post hysterical-sounding rants in feedback (much like the one you posted above, and might I add that people who spell Xander 'Zander' or call Buffy 'Elizabeth' or have Buffy call Spike 'William' are also on my pet peeve list, along with people who have Giles casually referred to as 'Ripper' by anyone not named Ethan Rayne?) and my favorite WiP never gets updated again, possibly because the author is convinced that everyone hates them.

I have actually read feedback that had me convinced that the writer was wiping tears of rage out of their eyes and typing with shaking fingers, stabbing the keys as if they wished they were my eyeballs. Unfortunately, while a sign of effective writing is moving one's audience to strong emotion, I'm pretty sure that most authors aren't trying to instill CAPSLOCK OF RAGE! in their audience. (note qualifying 'most authors')

Gosh, I have a lot of pet peeves. I should open a Peeve Petting Zoo.

Set

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[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-29 10:03 pm UTC (link)
See, I have zero problem with thoughtful feedback, even if the reader doesn't always agree with me.

CAPSLOCS OF RAGE however...let's not getting into spelling now, okay?

This story, along with Mars Rising, I think, really is one huge Rorsarch test for readers, mostly: "How literally are you taking this?"

But, yeah, what you said (I must go home now...)

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[info]midnightsjane
2005-04-30 01:10 am UTC (link)
It boggles my mind that someone would think you were bashing either Xander or Buffy in this story. This is just not so. I can feel Xander's hurt and anger, but it's hurt and anger caused by his realization that his feelings for Buffy are not returned, and he has made himself vulnerable. I found this moving and sad, but certainly not bashing.

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[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:06 pm UTC (link)
And, like I said, written to be a companion piece where Buffy does the exact same thing, only she acknowledges that she was completely sober and Xander was drunk off his ass.

But even so, I am mystified how anyone could think I was bashing Buffy or Xander. Even if it was a stand-alone, Buffy could just be upset she made a mistake and may have wrecked her friendship with Xander which could account for her reaction. It didn't have to be the sinister thing some people make it.

I think this is definitely a case of showing this to the wrong audience. My usual attitude is: If the audience sees it as one way and that's not what you intended, you are the one who screwed up because you wrote it wrong and that is why, more than anything else, I found a lot of the FB on this disturbing because I was pretty sure I screwed up for it to be taken so universally wrong.

But I think this is one of the few cases (Mars Rising is the other) where the audience I was showing it to was misinterpreting what I wrote. Like I said, the FB here, and the fact that it's the one story I keep hearing requests to find makes me finally believe I didn't write it "wrong."

The reaction here

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[info]nwhepcat
2005-04-30 01:12 pm UTC (link)
Can you say: Unreliable narrator? I knew you could.

/Mr. Rodgers

This is a heartbreaker, and even without reading the first story (which I will) it's clear Xander's take on this probably isn't the one to believe.

What you ran into was your Xander fundies, who take all things literally.

Check out the Buffy Fiction Archive, a great autoarchive run by the incomparable Shrift. Everything of mine gets posted there.

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[info]liz_marcs
2005-04-30 01:27 pm UTC (link)
BFA is always on my list of places to post, but the formatting requirements sometimes make it difficult (same with Sliverlake-L). I've been hit or miss over there, but this "saving the puppies" campaign is forcing me to clean up my harddrive so the stories in different formats can get more organized (My 'Whisper' folder is a mess and Living History is insane), so after I manage to yank everything I want to save from there it'll be easier to post in those two spots because it'll be more of a search-and-replace function to fix the formatting.

One thing about Wicked Raygun: he tends to write Buffy-Xander, but he is one of the few of those writers that actually pays more attention to the Buffy side of the equation and where neither one are perfect. If anything, he's better at writing Buffy (his Buffy is amazing) than Xander (although his Xander is pretty good).

But he's also the WiP king. He has several stories that I wish he'd finish, but he tends to abandon them four chapters in. There's one story in particular (Darkroom) that I've been tempted to ask if I could finish.

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Duh! Silverlake address. - [info]liz_marcs, 2005-04-30 01:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hpchick, 2005-05-01 07:49 am UTC (Expand)

[info]siliconivy
2007-04-05 12:04 am UTC (link)
just read both of the stories. A powerful combination ... why no one got it I have no idea. Pefect, that they would both so misread each other.

And congrats on the award!

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[info]firefly_124
2007-04-14 11:15 pm UTC (link)
Ouch. You have Xander's voice down, and just ... wow. Glad I stumbled across this.

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[info]rudyhenkel
2007-04-25 07:54 am UTC (link)
Fantastic, amazing Xander introspection. I've recced this at XanderZone, hoping to help offset the tremendous number of super!Xander fics on there.

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[info]liz_marcs
2007-04-25 03:12 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for commenting and recommending. I appreciate it.

And, heh, the reaction at the XZ should be interesting (assuming there is anyone there who even remembers when I was a member). I didn't depart the group under the best of terms, to be honest.

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(no subject) - [info]rudyhenkel, 2007-04-25 03:58 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]beege22
2009-11-17 01:12 pm UTC (link)
You actually caught flack for this? Those people must have been rabidly obsessed B/X shippers with rose-tinted glasses a mile thick to find this offensive.

I actually find this a pretty credible example of how Buffy and Xander might hook up - both of them would need the excuse.

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